Reyna Alishio (00:00):

The big campaign question is coming up because you think of them as taking a lot of time and a lot of money, and there are a lot of way snow in marketing to spend less money and go faster, whether it's influencers, user generated, quicker content, and so great lean into how that world has changed. But I think what will not change for powerful brands is standing for something consistently, A campaign used to do that. Your story is the same, the same, the same. And now how are you going to stand for something consistently through faster, higher volume, agile content?

Cole Heilborn (00:36):

On this podcast, we go behind the scenes with industry experts as they break down what it takes to produce creative work that works.If you're seeking insights from some of the sharpest minds of the industry, this is your guidebook to producing creative work that actually delivers.Welcome to the Backcountry Marketing Podcast. Today I'm sitting down with RenaAlicia, she is the head of marketing at Altra, and I'm also sitting down withAndy Ralston, the senior director of Strategy at Backbone Media. Welcome to the show.

Andy Ralston (01:02):

Thank you.

Reyna Alishio (01:02):

Good to be here.

Cole Heilborn (01:03):

Yeah, it's good to see you both. How many months are you into this new campaign that Altra just launched? It's been a little bit of time, but we're fairly fresh, aren't we?

Reyna Alishio (01:13):

Yeah, campaign kicked off in June, so we've had the summer.

Cole Heilborn (01:17):

Awesome. Well, on today's call, we're going to kind of dig into the campaign, dig into both the brand side and the agency side being represented here, and try to understand and unpack what went into the campaign.I want to understand your guys' approach, the strategy, the insights, and then how you kind of brought it full circle and brought it to life because I think there's some really cool activation components that you've included that I think a lot of people can learn from. So I guess to kind of kick us off, your tagline is Experience a new High. Where did that come from and how did that kind of set the tone for what follows?

Reyna Alishio (01:53):

Sure. Experience in New High should think of as a seasonalcampaign. So we have an always on brand campaign that is stay out there, butthis campaign was built around the launch of our experience collection ofshoes, which has both road and trail shoes in it. Super big moment for us startof the summer, really important product collection, and we were looking to do acampaign that could live and deliver what the brand is about and launch thatproduct and live on through the summer. We wanted to intercept culture andconnect with our consumers and we are trying to pull the brand to a youngeraudience. So a couple of things we knew about younger audience, 50% of youngadults report symptoms of anxiety and depression and they're willing to talkabout mental health. Some mental health was on our mind, the craving of socialconnection among young people and running being both a solution to connectionand mental health. And then you add in this final point that people areactually doing less drugs and alcohol and you put all that in the mix andexperience a new high delivered runner's high mental health name of theproduct, an emotional connection to the brand. So that's really what pulled thecampaign and the concept altogether.

Cole Heilborn (03:18):

Very cool. Rena, was that a tagline that your team haddeveloped or Andy, was your team involved in actually writing the copy forthat?

Reyna Alishio (03:27):

Yeah, that idea was developed by the creative team at Altra.

Andy Ralston (03:32):

Yeah, the Altra team came up with the campaign creativeconcept and the tagline, and it was really fun walking into their office, geez,a few months before the campaign launched and we came into the conference roomat the Altra offices thinking, what are we going to get? It's probably going tobe kind of another running shoe brand campaign. And when we sat down andreceived something so unexpected and so thoroughly researched and solid, thestrategy and insights that Rena just described that went into it, we werereally surprised and really excited to receive this creative idea and get toreally run with it. And we can talk in a lot of depth about how we kind ofapplied a lower sea creative lens to how to bring it to life while the Altrateam came to us with this awesome creative seed of an idea to get us going.

Cole Heilborn (04:35):

Yeah. Can you kind of summarize the extent of thecampaign, all of the various touch points, some pretty cool ways that youactivated this?

Andy Ralston (04:45):

Yeah, we can go deep here and it's a lot of differentthings and it's really fun and I think before we get into all the differentpieces, I feel strongly that if we're really pursuing a 360 degree superintegrated campaign like we did here, that core kind of north star strategicdirection is so important to make sure that that's the filter through which weapply any potential tactic that we're going to activate on. And like Renadescribed that core of the campaign was this intersection of wellness, mental wellbeing,physical wellbeing, and the feeling that you get when you're running and youexperience that kind of overlap of physical and mental impact of the activity.And so that was what we really took and applied it to a lot of differentpotential directions at first. And if I can talk about how we kind of openedthe doors to a lot of different potential things that we could do and thennarrowed it down, I think that's also really interesting.

(05:52):

We initially came to Altra with two broad campaigndirections that we could go. One would go deep in really kind of off menuexpressions of sensory experiences, so things like should we do an artinstallation? Should we do a collaborations that really just more thantraditional advertising tap into a feeling and that overlapping and blurring ofphysical and mental emotional experience of running. The second was to reallylet the excellent creative that Altra came up with Speak for itself and thenput it in front of runners where they're doing their daily grind, where they'reexperiencing potentially those physical and emotional effects of their run. Andwe went with the ladder, which I think was a really fun way to create impactand create this super integrated campaign structure. And just to give you thelaundry list of stuff, there was a deep influencer component with 21 creatorsthat we worked with.

(07:04):

We did a pretty substantial out of home imprint at theDenver airport that was geared toward capturing people who are coming intoColorado, their first touch point. They're receiving Altra messaging aboutexperiencing a new hire with this amazing creative that their team produced. Wealso did a blending of virtual and real life activation through sponsoredStrava segments that had a literal on the ground component of Gorilla stylestencil out of home with quippy copywriting. So say you're on your way to yourrun at Wash Park in Denver, the Wash Park segment is sponsored. That'll pop upon your phone after you run the segment and on your way to the run, you'll seea message on the sidewalk before you get into the park. So there's funblurring, virtual and real life. There was a product launch event, there was ayoga on the Rocks sponsorship throughout the summer.

(08:07):

This was a really cool way to extend from core run cultureto the edges of that culture in a way that tapped into this idea of generalwellness and general wellbeing. We know a lot of runners also do yoga prizemobility, the feelings that yoga can give you. So in partnering with Yoga onthe Rocks, we were able to really operate in that zone at the edge of thiscommunity and pushing into that central campaign message. There was probablyother stuff that I'm forgetting, but those were the primary pillars that the Backboneteam brought into play. I know the Altra team was also executing a broaderdigital campaign footprint, if you want to talk about that at all, Rena?

Reyna Alishio (08:54):

Yeah, I'll just add a couple things. One is absolutelybroader digital campaign, but also we're pulling this all the way through toretail, making sure that we're in store windows. We actually leverage a lot ofour key retail partners ecosystems, so we're getting in their campaign systemin their emails and retailers. It kind of built, it was like, oh wow, that'scool. You're doing something that could be cool for us. I want a piece of that.So that was a really exciting component. I want to say one other thing aboutyoga that not only is it an adjacent sport, but our message as a brand is a lotabout foot health and your foot moving naturally and your toes splaying andbeing, if you go to a yoga class and they say ground your feet in all fourcorners, that is what the Altra proposition lets you do, put you in a morebalanced position. So I think just that overlap allowed people to unlock andsay, oh, now I understand your story a bit better. And certainly bringing bothmedia and content creators to yoga on the rocks help them make that connectionand make their story even stronger. I thought that was a real nice learning aswell.

Cole Heilborn (10:09):

Yeah. Before we dig deeper, can you share your breakdownof responsibilities? What did Altra in-house manage and what did Backbonemanage?

Andy Ralston (10:17):

Altra really drove the concept. Like I said, we went totheir offices, received a pretty well thought out comprehensive brief with thecreative concept, more or less baked in terms of the direction we wanted to go.So their team went deep on creative on concepting on the initial strategicvision behind the campaign. From there, Backbone took the reins with addingdepth across really like a 360 integrated way to activate the campaign beyondjust traditional creative storytelling. And by that I mean video copywriting,photo shoots, all that stuff was handled beautifully by the Altra team while Backbonewas thinking about how do we take it out to more grassroots communitytouchpoints across Colorado, how do we amplify it with brand scale and how dowe get creative with all these different touch points that we can do to adddepth and build on this wonderful creative idea that the Altra team gave us?

Cole Heilborn (11:25):

Very cool. Rena, can you take us back to some of theinsights that helped drove this? You were talking about mental health, you'retalking about depression, you're talking about the need and the craving forin-person experiences and events. As you were thinking about this campaign,take me back to the steps that you took to try to understand your audience.What insights did you find as you were researching your audience and what didresearch even look like? What does that mean?

Reyna Alishio (11:57):

So some of that is syndicated research trends that we'rewatching trend-based publication, but we're also always out in the market infocus groups talking to consumers and run clubs interacting. So it's reallykind of throwing that all together and looking for what is it saying andspeaking to us, I think an important part of this moment too, and this is lesson the consumer insight, but where we were as a brand is we've just beenpushing and really building into this more emotional connection, not just talkingabout shoes and products. We've been driving heavy in awareness, but it hadbeen very much in a digital spend and we wanted to break through in this inreal life media, arts, disruptive grassroots space and Backbone had worked withour team on a different project and we thought we did some pretty cool thingstogether there and so we're like, Hey, we need a partner to unlock this. Sotaking consumer insights, leading to a good concept and then saying, we got tobring this concept to the world differently, were a couple of those things thatgot us to where we are.

Andy Ralston (13:03):

Yeah, I would add to that, that the Altra team did a greatjob communicating the foundational insights and the foundational strategy here.And then one of Backbone's I think really interesting spaces that we're able tooccupy is combining real life on the ground experience with core pursuit basedcommunities. In this case the running community overlaid on top of ways toscale that message through maybe surprising other insights about adjacentactivities or routines that these runners or other communities might follow. Weknow there's a lot of training that takes place for summer Altras or for fallmarathons, and so how can we tap into people's routines and running routes andthe kind of softer lifestyle attributes that you wouldn't glean from just dataexported on a spreadsheet, but you do understand if you have people on theground who are listening to these communities part of these communities andable to really embed and obviously the Altra team lives and breathes the brandtoo, but I think the combined forces of Backbone with our reach in mountains atour Carbondale office and Denver at our city office and our decades ofexperience in the Colorado endurance sports community was a really greatcombination in order to have one leading campaign insight and then also smallertouchpoints and smaller insights that could give more nuance to the campaign.

Cole Heilborn (14:40):

What was that one leading campaign insight, if you couldsummarize it?

Reyna Alishio (14:47):

It's hard to say. It's just one thing we know aboutrunners and shoes is while runners are open to try new innovations, they alsoget really comfortable with a shoe that works for them. So we knew we needed tocome with something provocative that was going to speak to them both about afunctional experience and something emotional and culture that says, wait aminute, I got to pay attention to that. And so just wanting to disrupt and say,you should consider a different solution, that's where you get to thisexperience at New High and it builds on the other insights of mental health,being able to name that, craving that in real life connection so that it juststarts to round out a lot of dots kind of circling in on this being the rightspace.

Cole Heilborn (15:35):

Yeah. How much of a challenge is that as a running brandto get people out of their existing perhaps non Altra shoes if they'recomfortable with them and they work and switch to a different shoe, how much ofan uphill battle is that and how much can a campaign actually motivate or getsomeone to step outside of their existing shoes? Does that work?

Reyna Alishio (15:56):

Yeah, I mean that is the challenge. What we know is whenpeople try on Altra shoes, they love the fit and there's an aha because ittruly does feel different and delivers something different. So if you can breakthrough the sea of communication open their minds disrupt, you have that shot,and that was really one of the reasons to add the in real life componentdopamine dispensary is like, wait, what's going on over there? And so I thinkthat was why we were really pushing for something disruptive, a new space toplay, and our results showed that we did that. The engagement that we got inreal life events, the search interests that we delivered this summer reallyshowed that this was something that caught people's attention.

Cole Heilborn (16:45):

So as you look at the impact, how much of the impact wasfrom the in-person activations and how much of it was through everything elsein terms of, I guess maybe two factors, impressions, but then also in terms ofI guess I'll say the potency of those impressions, the quality of thoseimpressions?

Reyna Alishio (17:06):

Yeah, I would definitely say that we now believe that theformula is the one two punch of the broad reach, the scale and then seeing youagain in real life where I can connect with you more emotionally, experiencethe product, put product on right then and there. So not having those specificnumbers in front of me, but that one, two is what's working for us and we'regoing to continue that.

Andy Ralston (17:33):

And I'll say on the influencer side, there's a prettytangible impact there. Yes, it is an impressions number. We've seen I thinkreaching the 2 million impressions mark through 128 posts through theinfluencer component of the campaign, and that also has been split roughly halfand half between influencers in the Colorado, specifically the Denver area, andthen also a more national footprint on the influencer side. And that's bothbeen thinking about influencers as brand storytellers but also product storytellers.And so we are working with the Altra team to make sure that the more productoriented influencer storytelling has a through line to paid media and makingsure that we give that enough reach, make sure it has impact kind of furtherdown the consumer journey in the digital ecosystem. So there have beeninteresting ways of kind of connecting the dots between some tactics that are alittle softer on the measurement side or harder to measure on through to reallymeasurable outcomes that I think, again, thinking about essential pieces of asuper integrated campaign, that handoff is really important and I think we'vebeen able to achieve some interesting things there with the Altra team.

Reyna Alishio (18:58):

Yeah, we're really looking to move the needle on awarenessand search interest as a precursor to that awareness. One of the things we knowis that if we look at Colorado search interest a year ago summer versus thissummer a year ago, we had spikes based on different activations that weredispersed and this summer we delivered sustained and increased search interest.So really would attribute that to the activities being out there speaking toyou both at the airport and at Yoga on the Rocks. So those numbers and thenhonestly sell through of the product and success of the product launch isultimately what we're gaining for and that's going well as well.

Cole Heilborn (19:42):

Rena, you mentioned the one two punch so to speak. What'sbeen your experience in the past with in-person and digital campaigns and whathave you learned? It sounds like this is a much more robust effort than you'vedone in the past. What did you learn specifically what surprised you?

Reyna Alishio (20:01):

Digital and paid lets you go a lot of places quickly atscale and it takes more ramp up and thoughtfulness of how you're going to do inreal life, but I think just in a world where you need to break through, youneed to connect emotionally, people are craving in-person connection, both withyou as a brand, how do you behave, how do you interact with me, and then we'redoing events where people are interacting with each other so you get asecondary value there. So that's why I think the two are pretty powerful. Wehave a third component at play in the brand, it's also in real life, but whilethis is fun and it's on the road and it's in culture, we're also out there inpretty elite events with athletes, right, adding that credentialing performancepiece. So just another layer and a different kind of in-person.

Andy Ralston (20:56):

Cole, earlier when I was giving you the laundry list ofthings that went into the campaign, I forgot to mention maybe the mostimportant part. The dopamine dispensary tour was a major component of thecampaign. It was a 12 stop tour, some overlap with yoga on the rocks, but alsoa lot of distinct touch points too. For instance, at High Lonesome 100, whichis an event that Altra already had a major presence at, we had the dopaminedispensary pop up there. Coincidentally the next weekend I was out trail runningHope pass out by Leadville. I was coming down, one side of the guy was comingup and I saw a dopamine dealer hat out in the wild and I was so happy and I hadto stop the guy and say, where'd you get that hat? What do you think of Altra?Just a little field interview on the spot.

(21:49):

But it was really cool to see the connection through tothat core community through just that simple little touch point. The tour alsowas at different really interesting places in the Denver metropolitan area, sothere's an upcoming event at Dairy Block. There was a major presence at DenverPride, which was really cool to go again, kind of run adjacent, but inclusivityis a very important pillar of the Altra brand. So making sure that we're notjust catering to core run events and going outside that kind of firstconcentric circle there was really important. And like I said, there are 12stops on this tour that are really interesting and added a lot of depth to thecampaign.

Reyna Alishio (22:42):

Yes, I'll add on some exciting news of what we're doingwith dopamine dispensary. So throughout the summer we're also looking at otheropportunities to expand our in real life connection in moments and we were ableto secure a relationship with Diplo's Run Club, which is a great combination ofmusic and run Club eight City tour and we have the dopamine dispensary showingup there and I do think that their view for their event producers felt likedopamine dispensary felt like it fit right into the culture and the vibe thatthey wanted to deliver. So that's been a nice gift that keeps giving and we hadour first event in Philly and just tons of engagement. So our highestengagement events so far have been Yoga Diplo and the Pride Fu. So I think thelearning there is lots of people with some connection and adjacency to run, butget the crowds feeling of the moment high energy location

Cole Heilborn (23:44):

And explain the dopamine dispensary, what is it?

Reyna Alishio (23:48):

Yeah, so playing off of the dopamine part of it,dopamine's very much as a word in culture, whether you're getting it fromsugar, your online scrolling or truly in the runner's high so people understandthat that's a feel good moment and that is what running and this connectiondelivers. So picture a van that you walk up and you have both our trail shoeand road shoe merchandised on the wall. People can interact, try on shoes,understand, get some munchies, get the cool running as dope hat engaged, takesome cool filtered photos. So it's just kind of an excitement hub and thenyou're drawing people in and they're trying on shoes. Maybe they know a littlebit about Altra, maybe they are just curious and learning about Altra for thefirst time,

Andy Ralston (24:39):

I think it was really amazing to see that come to life. Itwas just kind of a small idea in some of the initial planning for the campaignand then Backbone partnered with event production agency called G seven andtogether with Altra and G seven, we were able to bring it to life in a reallyfun way where it really peaked interest. You see this thing across the street,it's like a big black trailer that says dopamine dealer on it or dopaminedispensary and you're like, what is that? Is that actually what I think it isor is that something else? I need to take a closer look. Then you come up andyou see shoes in little jars and on display you would see at a real dispensaryand you see interactive elements for taking selfies and it's just this reallyimmersive experience that really serve to draw people in more than your 10 by10 pop-up tent at an event or more than really a lot of things that I've seenlike it's no new tactic to do a tour with a trailer, but the creative idea onthis one and the level of depth and thought that went into it, I think just themore you peeled away layers, the more interesting it was.

(26:03):

And like Ranna said at those events where it wasn'tnecessarily your most core running event, but it was people who were interestedin running and really receptive to the Altra message. There were greatconnections with those people both qualitatively, but also getting people toscan a QR code and connect the dots there.

Cole Heilborn (26:26):

So at the end of all of this, what problem is thiscampaign solving for Altra? If you could summarize that as simply as possible.

Reyna Alishio (26:35):

I mean we are here to drive awareness and help youunderstand Altra. So the fact that it could disrupt and catch your attentionsolved our awareness piece. And when we brought you into the trailer and youtried on shoes and heard a little bit about our story, now you understand us asa brand. So take that down to the next level of supporting a specific shoe thatreally was our most approachable young adult shoe and getting that launchedwell,

Cole Heilborn (27:05):

So awareness and understanding that was

Reyna Alishio (27:07):

Awareness is the top of that conversation.

Cole Heilborn (27:10):

So for everyone who's listening who's like, man, I wish Ihad leadership who just could jump on board to a well thought out, but kind ofedgy, edgier idea, what sort of advice would you have when trying to sharethese types of concepts with leadership to get approval? Is there anything thatyou've learned that might be of value for someone who's looking to take an ideaupstairs to try and get the budget or get the approval?

Reyna Alishio (27:40):

Well, I mean I think a key part is knowing who your brandis. Does your brand with your voice, your personality, your consumer target, doyou have permission to play here? So if you can check that box, you should havea good conversation. But if you want to sell beyond that painting a picture ofthe landscape and competition and what it's going to take to break through andbe disruptive, you can look at a lot of running marketing materials and seewe're talking about running and we're talking about it in the same way and welook pretty similar. So you start putting those pieces together and a yes isstarting to formulate a little quicker.

Cole Heilborn (28:23):

True. But on the other hand, it seems like there's still alot of friction sometimes when it comes to this type of stuff. Are you just, isAltra just in a good place with a good team who understands the value of takingedgier stances?

Reyna Alishio (28:41):

I think we have great leadership, our brand presidentthat's willing to say, I understand what the brand is about. That's built aculture where it's safe to bring forward ideas. I think we have a VF culturethat understands the role of an emerging brand. So I do think people matter inthat I'm painting the picture of how you bring strategy and selling to life,but of course people and how they're going to receive that matter a lot.

Cole Heilborn (29:09):

So let's look at the general run category out there. I'mcurious, what are you seeing about the run category? A lot of stuff feelssimilar to your point. What are some of the concerns that folks in the runcategory should be paying attention to? If you can speak to anything thatyou're seeing that you're like that's intriguing,

Reyna Alishio (29:35):

You grabbed a couple things, concerns intriguing. I thinkeveryone's noticing that running is also becoming lifestyle and a badge in thatway, and that's certainly something that everyone's at least looking at. Ithink when you think about opportunity or concern, I think as we look to thefuture and growing, running into the future, running needs to become a lot moreinclusive because the future is. And so I think that should be on the minds ofbrands and clubs and I think it is. So those would be two big things.

Andy Ralston (30:12):

I think the running space is also, and it has been for afew years now, becoming more and more social in a moment with screen fatigue,zoom fatigue, things that I know I experienced in my daily life and we probablyall do. The opportunity to connect through social running is really important.And on the previous campaign that we mentioned, which was a co-op campaignbetween Smart Wool and Altra, that was a real pillar of that activation wastapping into social running throughout the winter because it was a winterrunning capsule collection of shoes like full body product assortment forwinter running. So I think, and a lot of brands have already been doing thistapping into social running in different respects, but finding the balancebetween running being a lifestyle brand and to the extent that in someinstances it's getting very fashion oriented and maybe a little bit more of asuper premium slash luxury price tag that goes with it versus accessibility andreally getting people stoked, going out running, people talk all the time aboutrunning is such a simple sport, you just need a pair of shoes and you can be arunner.

(31:34):

I think that remains true and continuing to find ways toempower people to get out and stay connected in real life through that sport Ithink will remain a pillar of the pursuit.

Cole Heilborn (31:49):

Yeah. Here's a question that I've always had. Arecampaigns something here to stay? I mean they've been a staple of the marketerstool for a long time now. As you look to the future, what role do campaignsplay? Could you see a world where they disappear and something else takes theirplace? I'm curious to hear your thoughts on that.

Reyna Alishio (32:10):

I think that's an interesting conversation for sure. Isthere a world where there's just more volume of content and messages? Is theremore of a breadth of what those are and then you put gas on what's working? Arethey all threaded together with the same core? I think those are all thingsthat probably all marketers are spending a little bit of time on.

Andy Ralston (32:34):

If I can get into Backbones overarching strategic approachto things, I think it starts to express a point of view on that question, whichis a really interesting one. We think of a three-legged stool, like a strategicthree legged stool where each piece serves to prop up the other pieces. Andthose three components are brand, community and performance. And at firstblush, that sounds pretty simple, but it's actually a pretty dynamic interplayof a lot of different types of strategies and tactics and so on. The brandpiece of it that is going broad, how are we bringing people in communityfostering deep connections, deep roots, making sure we're always showing up ina way that's serving our most important communities and performance isobviously connecting the dots from those other two pillars to driving revenueto affecting the top line in the bottom line. And that trifecta is reallyimportant.

(33:36):

Looking at the B and the C, the brand and community piecesof that, I don't think for most brands other than the largest corporations inthe world, the brand big reach really expanding and frankly elevating yourspin. I don't think that piece can be always on for a lot of brands, especiallyin the active lifestyle space where you're not going to have huge budgets foralways on brand push. And so I think that's where campaigns start to come intoplay is if you think of performance always on, you got to capture demand, youhave to connect to revenue and community always on. You have to be nurturingyour connections with your core consumer, whoever that is. Then brand kind ofexpanding your reach and going broader, bringing new people into your brand'sworld that I think you could kind of see as a wave and sometimes you're pushingand sometimes it's a little bit lower. And that's how we think of it with a lotof our clients is what are the right moments to push on brand to push on abigger message. In this instance with Altra, we were brought in at a momentwhere they knew they wanted to push, they wanted to bring in a youngerdemographic, expand from their historic core runner, and I think that is inline with how we think about a lot of our client work.

Cole Heilborn (35:01):

Got it. So it really just comes down to budget andresources.

Reyna Alishio (35:05):

I think the big campaign question is coming up because youthink of them as taking a lot of time and a lot of money and there are a lot ofways now in marketing to spend less money and go faster, whether it'sinfluencers, user generated, quicker content, and so great lean into how thatworld has changed. But I think what will not change for powerful brands isstanding for something consistently. A campaign used to do that your story isthe same, the same, the same. And now how are you going to stand for somethingconsistently through faster, higher volume, agile content?

Cole Heilborn (35:44):

So I think about the Red Bull model, they seem to be veryfocused on just content, like brand content. And actually, I don't know maybethat, maybe I'm wrong in saying this, but it doesn't seem like they do a lot ofcampaign led work.

(36:00):

I know it's easy to pull Red Bull as an example andthey're not the most realistic brand to compare everyone else to, but if brandscould just invest at that brand level consistently 365 days a year, what sortof results would you see if you could speculate if you went the more brandfocused route consistently while still investing in those community andperformance components rather than investing in community and performanceconsistently, but occasionally elevating brands every now and then, do you haveany thoughts on what you would see in terms of results? Would it be worth theefforts if you could somehow pull it off?

Reyna Alishio (36:43):

Well, you not only need the awareness piece, you need yourrelevant and meaningful. So I need to know you and have a sticky pathway toquickly intercept in your brain, but in a way I want to engage in. And Red Billcertainly has found something really relevant in a way to demonstrate theirbrand to their consumers. So they're doing that part really well. I think if wejust were dramatic about someone just had a bunch of money to spend with amessage, okay, I might know you and know your message, but do I care to takeaction on that is going to be the next piece.

Andy Ralston (37:19):

I think if we're thinking about the space that we alloperate in, like active lifestyle in some expression of that, there is somerisk in diluting your, like Rena said, your relevance to the consumer whoreally is looking to you for an excellent product, an excellent experience. Andif you over index for instance, on big broad reach and trying to appeal to themaximum number of people, then I think you can risk some of that trust andrelevance and authenticity in your core communities. So it's all about a balance.And I think what's interesting about the Red Bull example is Red Bull on firstblush is not a product you would necessarily use Mid Vic Ride or Mid Pursuit.Yes, it's a caffeinated energy drink, but you're more likely going to beconsuming something that's more like electrolytes and a little bit more tunedthe pursuit that you're participating in. And the way I view the Red Bull kindof route is more leveraging the eyeballs that are on those pursuits rather thanthe people who are actually participating in those pursuits. So action sportsF1 other touch points where these active pursuits are getting broader impact aswell, I think is more the direction that Red Bull goes there rather than abrand where your product is frequently or constantly in use in those pursuits.It's a bit of a hard thing to articulate, but are you following where I'm goingwith that?

Cole Heilborn (39:14):

Yeah, yeah. Different use cases, therefore it's adifferent way in which the brand shows up perhaps.

Andy Ralston (39:20):

Yeah,

Cole Heilborn (39:22):

Yeah. What's the value of in-person these days? Becauseyou look around at the industry, at least on the industry side of things, andthere's a lot of questions about, well, where are trade shows going? Are theystill a thing and some trade shows are losing momentum, others are gainingmomentum, but for the consumer side of things, what's the value of in person?And it's easy to say, oh, in person is valuable, but if you could go beyondthat, what are your predictions?

Andy Ralston (39:54):

It comes down to the goals of the brand and the goals ofthe campaign really. And I think as we're seeing things like social runningbeing ascendant and these community touch points that emerge with a pursuitlike running and around a brand like Altra, I think it's a no-brainer forin-person real life on the ground touchpoints that might not be the mainpriority for all campaigns, for all brands, for all product launches. So Ithink it's really about taking a step back and thinking what's our strategicNorth star? What are we truly trying to accomplish here and how can either inreal life or virtual or some combination of the two strategies and tacticsreally break through and accomplish that top line objective that we're tryingto achieve?

Reyna Alishio (40:52):

Yeah, I think brands have been, we've seen this, this isnot unique or new, but brands that are bringing you an experience or insertinginto your life and the fact that there's a brand message there is prettysecondary. So this is a coffee shop, this is a hangout spot. We just happen toalso have this brand apparel, shoe, product, whatever, that's offeringsomething of value in very, just a great way that consumers can receive it. Ifthat can be authentic to your brand's ecosystem, that's a very powerful way toshow up. I think you said what are the predictions? There will probably be somependulums between I'm craving in real life and I want to go down into themetaverse. We're going to have all kinds of things happen along the way, but wecan respond to that.

Cole Heilborn (41:47):

Yeah, I think about a company like Snow Peak where they'vegot some really interesting integrated in-person components to their brand andit just makes me wonder, are brands going to be assuming that it does alignwith who they are? Will we see more of those types of things because it onlyseems like society is only going to become more disconnected.

Reyna Alishio (42:09):

I think you're right on that. I think consumers arelooking for brands to show their authentic selves, and that's easier in anaction in a world than it is on a screen. And so if done well, I think it'svery powerful. It does mean maybe connecting with fewer people more powerfully.So to your right, what are those little worlds you create?

Cole Heilborn (42:34):

What's something both of you learned working on thiscampaign?

Andy Ralston (42:38):

So one of the components of this campaign that we werereally excited about that I mentioned earlier was the intersection of reallife, literally on the ground gorilla style stencils throughout the city ofDenver and the Strava sponsored segments. And it was this really coolintersection of multiple touch points and we were super excited about it in thesense that we wanted to reach this passionate community, show them that we knowwhere their daily grind is happening, show them that, Hey, we see you, we understandyou we're here with you. We ended up getting some pushback from some runners inthe Denver community who didn't like having those stencil out of home piecesaround their running routes. And so while we were hoping this would be really apiece of the puzzle that would generate stoke and be really unique and reallycool, we learned that that wasn't going to resonate with everyone in thiscommunity and we with Altra corrected the wrong, there was some perception thatthey might not be sustainable or that they might be permanent placements. Theywere chalk art placements through stencils, so they were both sustainable andtemporary. They would've faded after three to six weeks depending on weather,but we did end up removing those stencil ads because we wanted to respect thecommunity. We wanted to respect the people who didn't end up appreciating thatpart of the campaign, which is totally fine, but that was a learningexperience, especially something that we were so excited about on the Backboneside to execute and have executed in the past.

Cole Heilborn (44:32):

Very cool. Thanks for sharing the behind the scenes. Isthere anything that we didn't talk about that you want to make sure we canleave our audience with any other findings, any other elements to the campaignthat you thought were interesting?

Andy Ralston (44:46):

One more thing is this kind of through line here on the Backboneside is what is creativity? If you're not the creative agency necessarily, andI think this was a really valuable opportunity for us to step up and figure outhow can we creatively expressed this idea, even if we're not the ones shootingthe video or shooting or doing the photo shoot or writing the copy. And the waythat came to life was, I think it made us much better as an agency too, interms of how are we thinking Rena uses the phrase media arts. How are wethinking about media and all these real world and virtual touchpoint in a sensewhere the medium is the message in addition to just kind of the brass tacks ofmedia planning and all the metrics that we're tracking. And it came to life insuch cool ways with the influencer campaign where you end up with a bunch ofindividual creative directors who end up believing in the brand and they knowtheir audience so well and they know what works and they're going to createamazing content that none of our brains ever would've come up with.

(46:10):

But we gave them the opportunity with a fun seating kitand a really thoughtful brief to go out and really bring it to life in a reallycreative and also a different kind of way that both validates the brand andexpresses the brand's message in a fully different light. That to me was one ofthe most valuable pieces of the campaign on the Backbone side was taking acreative idea and saying, okay, just because Altra came up with a great taglineand made an amazing video already and came up with this concept, doesn't meanwe can't still be very creative in the way that we bring it to life.

Reyna Alishio (46:51):

There was a lot of parts of this that came in fast and weas a team have had to say to ourselves like progression and action, notperfection. Get it out there, push start. And so I think that that's a goodrally cry for people to remember in this fast-paced world and good partnersthat are excited and the teams rolling up their sleeves to make it happen. Goodthings can happen.

Cole Heilborn (47:20):

Very cool. How long is this campaign going to run, Andy? Iknow you gave a preview of where folks can find the dopamine dispensary. Soundslike you can find that online too and figure out where it's going to be if youwant to go check it out in person, but yeah, what's the legs on this thing?

Reyna Alishio (47:41):

Yeah, the dopamine dispensary piece of it rolls even intoearly 2026 experience. Product collection does have an update in the first partof 2026, so don't be surprised if you see some evolution and thought, I'm notgoing to say it's going to be the same thing, but we'll keep the experiencecollection alive is what I will say.

Cole Heilborn (48:05):

Awesome. Well, Rena, Andy, thank you for the time. Thanksagain for sharing behind the scenes and sharing some of your insights and thestrategy and everything that went into it. I think this is obviously a prettycool example of what happens when you blend a unique audience, cultural momentand insights with some cool creative, and then with some even potentially evencooler in-person activations and figuring out how to get this thing out intothe world beyond the digital. So thanks for sharing. I wish you guys the best.I'm excited to see where this campaign takes Altra and you set the bar high, soI guess we'll see what the next seasonal campaign looks like.

Reyna Alishio (48:44):

Great, great. Thanks. Campaign's fun. Fun to be heretoday. I appreciate the invite.

Andy Ralston (48:49):

Yeah, this was awesome. Thanks, Cole.

Cole Heilborn (48:50):

Take care. Have a good day.

Reyna Alishio (48:51):

Okay, bye-bye.

Andy Ralston (48:52):

You too.

Cole Heilborn (48:53):

Thank you for listening to this episode. If you enjoyedit, please consider sharing it with a friend or leaving us a review on Apple.And remember, as you're working on that next piece of creative, the differencebetween creative that works and doesn't work often comes down to the hardquestions that you ask while you're shaping it.

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