Massimo Alpian (00:00):

Are you just making content for content's sake to spend money or are you actually doing something that makes sense and is intentional and mindful what makes sense for your brand and your brand identity? For us, that means the numbers I just presented, which is very few pieces of long form content that are very impactful and really set a tone and then some of these pieces of short form content from my brand experience believe that is a real great way to keep your following engaged and be able to not do too much with either long form or short form.

Cole Heilborn (00:37):

On this podcast, we go behind the scenes with industry experts as they break down what it takes to produce creative work that works. If you're seeking insights from some of the sharpest minds of the industry, this is your guidebook to producing creative work that actually delivers. Welcome to the Backcountry Marketing Podcast. Today I'm sitting down with Massimo Alpian and he's the global director of comms over at Tracksmith. Welcome to the show.

Massimo Alpian (00:59):

Thanks, Cole. I'm excited to be here.

Cole Heilborn (01:01):

Yeah, thanks for taking the time. I've got to say running brands are something near and dear to my heart, and so I'm excited to have this conversation. I got to say, before I met you, I didn't know much about Tracksmith and now I feel like as I've been digging in, I love what you guys are doing, so let's talk about your storytelling. Let's talk about your guys' creativity. You guys produced some amazing pieces of creative and I think that's how we originally got connected To some degree. It was over some piece of creative that you guys produced and I think I reached out, I was like, Hey, you want to talk about this? So I guess my first question for you is if you had to sum up your entire content strategy into one sentence, how would you reflect on that?

Massimo Alpian (01:43):

Yeah, and I think what's the most interesting thing about Tracksmith that sums up not only our content strategy, but what we do and how we serve the runner is one, we approach everything of being laser clear of who we are and what we do, and I think that starts with having a very clear self-awareness and identity of who you are as a brand, what you're trying to do and who you're trying to serve. And for us, that is very clear to us what our mission is, which is serving the dedicated and committed runner that can mean anything, right? When I say that phrase, it can actually sound quite polarizing. I think automatically a lot of people's minds go to times and performances and what journey they should be on as a runner, but to us what that literally means is that you wake up at least several days a week and say, I'm going to get out the door, get dressed, and go for a run because I love this sport.

(02:47):

I'm training towards something and I'm committed to whatever journey I'm on as a runner. How that comes to life in how we create content and how we story tell is one, we use real runners in our shoots. They are not hired models, but they're actual athletes that we work with that have been part of the Tracksmith brand and family for years, for 10, 11 years now since the brand was founded, A lot of what we do is also, not to sound cliche, but very authentic. So what you see is real, whether it's a campaign, whether it's a piece of video content, and what I mean by that is that is an actual real athlete training as they would normally train with or without a camera or a creative person behind a lens being there to document it. Whatever workout they're doing that day, we are there for the ride.

(03:46):

We are actually just an accessory to what they're doing, and I think that produces pieces of content and campaigns that really connect with our audience, which is fact. People give us amazing feedback that what they see feels so real. It's something there are moments in time that are captured before, during, and after the run that are really important that also speak to the runner. And generally I think it just really rises emotion when you see that. And to us when just like any piece of art, when you have a reaction to it, an emotion to it, whether it be positive, negative or neutral, to us that means something and that means that you are connecting to something in that piece of content. And I'll go back to that last piece. I think the most important thing we do that a lot of other brands don't do is when we do produce content, you are getting those moments before and after the run.

(04:54):

A lot of the content you see now is a runner running out there. They might be in an urban space on a trail, but you never see the before and after. And I think that's what leads to sort of these very posed moments, these very curated moments you see, and what you get is very real from waking up and making that cup of coffee before your run to stretching and foam rolling to moments after the run where you look like you're going to absolutely throw up because you had a terrible workout. So I'll stop there, but I think that is really what is special about our brand and what we put out there.

Cole Heilborn (05:37):

Yeah, incredible. Well, I'm excited to unpack all of this and more in our time today. Can you share a little bit about how you ended up as the global director of comms, A little bit about your background?

Massimo Alpian (05:49):

Yeah, so I've been in the outdoor industry for roughly 12 years now as marketer and a comms professional. Interestingly enough, my career did not start in the outdoor industry as a marketer. I actually worked in the nonprofit field for quite some time. When I finished graduate school, I kind of had this awakening and realized like, Hey, I don't know if I want to stay in the nonprofit field. I love being in the outdoors. I was a bike racer at the time and was living in New York City, which is a place that doesn't have a lot of access to nature. So a few things kind of hit me. I had lost my job at that time. It was during the global financial crisis many moons ago I had a bit of an awakening and said maybe I should switch careers. I've been wanting to get into the outdoor industry.

(06:44):

How do I do this? I have no experience minus working at a bike shop. So actually I went back to my roots, I went back to a bike shop and started working in retail and as a bike mechanic, that led to one thing after another. My ultimate goal was to move out west where a lot of the outdoor brands were based and build a marketing career. But ultimately my goal was how do I take a lot of the skillset I have, which is in nonprofit comms and social impact work and bring that to the outdoor space.

(07:22):

I think it's just looking back, everything kind of makes sense now, but at that time, nothing made sense because you're trying to switch careers. You feel like you're taking five or six steps back, but it all makes sense now because I moved out to Colorado, I landed my first marketing gig after retail at Dean of Fit and Sowa, which are storied, European mountaineering and back country ski brands. Learned a lot about working at a American subsidiary of a European brand. From there, I went to the PR agency side, which I built a very great career there, but also had the opportunity, which I have a lot of gratitude for working around some great individuals, but also some great brands. I went to Backbone Media and rigor based here in Colorado. Got to work on great accounts like Fi, Raven and Keen, and by happenstance, those happen to be brands that do a lot of social impact work around outdoor conservation as well as sustainability.

(08:29):

And from there I went to another PR agency, got to work on some other great brands, and that's kind of where I started entering the running space, was working on some great accounts like Hoka Camelback, which straddles the run space and a few others, and my cycling roots will always stay true to me. So from there, I landed my next gig at Cannondale leading global brand for a number of years. It was a really great time because that was during the bike boom, during the pandemic, and coincidentally at my last PR gig prior to Kendale, I did work on the Tracksmith account that was Tracksmith's PR agency of record. A bit of a love affair was built between myself and the Tracksmith team, and coincidentally years later they put out a JD looking for a global head of comms. So Matt Taylor, who is the founder and CEO of Tracksmith and also a friend, gave me a ring, funny enough, while I was at the Tour de France with Cannondale, which is an absolute dream, right?

(09:36):

As a kid that watched the Tour de France on TV and bike race, I was like, wow, this is the pinnacle of my career. And then I get a phone call literally while I'm in the middle of the TDF, and it was Matt Taylor who hadn't spoken to in a year, and he was like, Hey, we're putting out this job. Would you be interested in applying? Obviously we're going to keep the job selection process, the candidate selection process democratic, but just letting you know it's out there if you're interested. And quite honestly, Cole, I said no twice. I was like, oh man, I love bikes. I'm not going to give up bikes. But something spoke to me at the time after I sat and meditated on it and was really mindful of, I always loved working for Tracksmith. I always loved the content and storytelling they did, and I particularly loved what they accomplished on the community side of building community, and I think it just made sense. At the time, Cannondale was also calling me back to HQ on the east coast, so it was also a few other things that came into play. So I said yes, and that's where I am today and it's been almost three years at Tracksmith and I've been able to do a lot in those three years, and I have a lot of gratitude for that.

Cole Heilborn (11:02):

Yeah, amazing. With your role, with your role now, I guess, what's your relationship with the content creation process? Where are you involved? How involved are you?

Massimo Alpian (11:13):

Yeah, for sure. That's a great question because in a lot of the brands I work with, the marketing and comms team is either very close with the creative and content creation team or is not. I'm quite blessed because we are a small team. We function and act big, but internally we are a very small team that accomplishes a lot. Rafa Vieta, who is our creative director, is fantastic to work with and I work with him quite closely. What I think is quite special is one, Rafa is so talented at what he does and I've learned a lot from him and I hope he can say the same for me. We also work with some great creatives like Emily May, amongst others that also bring these content ideas to life. What I think is really special about Tracksmith and working at a small to medium sized brand that I did not experience at larger legacy brands is the comms and marketing team, or even just myself in my role, is part of this process from start to finish so I can come in and weigh in, and Rafa includes me in that process, as do others on the team of what are my needs from a comms and PR perspective that come into play during that content creation process, and also what am I seeing and hearing on the ground from a community perspective, from an editorial perspective, from a media perspective, that I can offer that feedback that gets incorporated into that content creation ideation process as well.

(13:01):

Does that make sense?

Cole Heilborn (13:02):

Yeah, that makes sense.

Massimo Alpian (13:03):

Yeah.

Cole Heilborn (13:05):

So you mentioned something that I think is a great foundation to start with as we unpack this creative wing of tracksmith, and you said it all starts with a really good understanding of who we are and who our audience is, and this is something that comes up time and time again on the show when we talk about what are the ingredients to produce great creative and understanding who you are and understanding your audience. Those are steps one and two, talk to me about your understanding of your audience because that's a really easy thing to say and you can go varying levels of depth to reach and understanding how do you think about your audience?

Massimo Alpian (13:43):

Yeah, so I think a part of that story is really part of our founder story. So Matt Taylor, our founder and CEO founded the brand 11 years ago now mainly because he saw a white space a whole in running and what that white space was that he felt as a runner and being around so many runners constantly, whether it was with his club or team or just at races that runners were constantly talking about how basically all the apparel that was out there was a bit ostentatious. AKA was just a lot of neon. The cuts were off, the fabrics and materials were off a, a lot of people were complaining like, Hey, go buy this shirt and after five wearers and several lashes, it's falling apart and I really am just looking for a brand that is not going to give me a piece of neon apparel that is going to give me something that I can wear for years and it will last.

(14:52):

And also I'm looking for a brand that I can connect with and identify with rather than these huge mega brands that are just corporate mega houses that have been around forever. Matt's wheels started to spin and essentially he founded Tracksmith and the reason why he founded Tracksmith was to fill those holes that he kept hearing in the community, and then our identity was built around that. So what came after that was not only crafting and designing product that met what a lot of runners wanted, which was classic apparel in very classic colors in high quality materials and fabrics that were built to last that are also made for runners and what they do. A incorporating things like pockets that make sense, cuts that make sense, but also when it comes to more of what we do on the brand side and the community side was also building a brand that helped build culture and community, which was not going on at that time.

(16:04):

And I can confidently say that we were one of the first, if not the first brand during that period, which would be around 20 14, 20 15, that really zoned in and focused on community building and community activations that also helped build an emotional connection to a brand that you're buying products from. I'll give you an example of that. 10 years ago I ran the Paris Marathon, did not work at Tracksmith. I went to Paris, and normally what every runner does is go straight to the expo in this huge expo space. It's very formal, it's very cold, it's very sterile. You go, you pick up your bib, you walk around, there's a bunch of brands with booths trying to sell you a lot of overpriced gear with things that say Paris Marathon on it, and then you walk out of there spending a couple hundred bucks on a bunch of stuff, you're probably going to wear that weekend and never wear again.

(17:05):

What Matt and the team did at that time was begin activating and creating community offsite during these major marathon moments. What that looked like was telling people that there was more going on outside of that expo space and inviting them into the tracksmith space. At the time, it was just popups for us, but things that we hosted were cultural events, whether it be shakeouts panels, workshops, being able to do things like poster stamping, which I think we chatted about that. But for those listening, we do this really cool project, an initiative which has grown into a key marker of what tracksmith in these moments, which is a poster amping moment where someone can come up, a runner who's finished this big moment in their running journey and gets their poster stamped and it's a real emotional moment for them and it's designed graphically for that major marathon.

(18:09):

What I'm getting at is that what we've built is not only great product, but we've built something that yes, one would say it is a product, but it's something that you have to touch that you can't physically touch, but you have to feel and experience, which has essentially built the success of Tracksmith over time and essentially that has built our identity, which I'll go back to your first point, Cole, is that we're a brand that serves the dedicated runner in both product and community, and then essentially that drives everything we do from the design process to what we do on the ground to how even our retail spaces are designed, if that makes sense.

Cole Heilborn (18:59):

Yeah. So when you say a dedicated runner come back to that, because you were saying it often isn't what people assume it is. Can you give us some standards or guardrails to help understand what a dedicated runner is?

Massimo Alpian (19:12):

Yeah, for sure. For us, what a dedicated runner is is whether you're training for your first 5K, whether you just picked up running this year or not even training for a race or this is maybe your 20th marathon and you're shooting to break your own personal record. Let's say you're trying to be as fast as possible and break a two 30 marathon, which is an insanely fast pace. You are all a dedicated runner to us. To us, what dedicated means is that you are committed to the journey, whatever that journey looks like for you. I think often when people hear that statement without an explanation behind it, they think you have to be super fast. You have to run seven days a week, you have to have a certain body type, and that is not what we mean for us. It essentially means that we are laser clear of discerning the runner. We are not trying to be a active lifestyle brand, AKA, which you see a lot of running brands enter that space. We will never make yoga gear, we will never make apparel for nothing beyond running. And essentially that also comes into play with footwear, which we've launched into the footwear space is we are never going to make lifestyle footwear. We are a running band. We will always be making everything we do serves a runner.

Cole Heilborn (20:43):

So when you think about your audience, this dedicated runner and how that informs your creative, can you give us some examples of maybe concepts that have been on the table that you've considered that didn't quite align with who your runner audience was and you've had to maybe retool it or rethink it, maybe an example that can show the connection between the audience and then the creative and how you bridge that gap?

Massimo Alpian (21:08):

Yeah, I think a really good example is a piece of creative we put out just literally a year ago that really launched the storytelling around 10 years of tracksmith in 2024. That piece of content is called the year of the amateur or the amateur anthem. It is a really beautiful piece of content that the creative team and Emily Nay worked on very, very deeply, and it took a lot of work and a lot of work from all sides. We all had opinions on it internally of what it should look like, what it's supposed to do and what it should mean. And I think that process was really interesting because it was as any process should be to put out something that's beautiful. It was arduous. I think, like I said, there were a lot of opinions that brought us back to the table, but I do remember the initial conversation that brought up the idea of doing this was essentially 2024, celebrated 10 years of the brand. I think we needed to double down on who we are so people know exactly who we are and what we do and understand what 10 years of tracksmith looks like and what the next 10 years of tracksmith will look like. That piece of content remains as one of our most successful, most viewed pieces of content to date.

Cole Heilborn (22:46):

So for folks who haven't seen this piece of creative that you're talking about the year of the amateur, can you explain what it is? What's the concept for people who haven't seen it?

Massimo Alpian (22:59):

Yeah, so what's really cool about Tracksmith is that we always say our mission statement is that we serve the amateur runner. Again, that goes back to what I was talking about, about what that dedicated runner is. What Tracksmith's sort of core focus is, is the amateur runner that is the unsponsored runner, the non-professional runner. When you look at some of the big brands out there, they all have pros that they pay lots of money to. We don't ever do that and we don't have that. What we, like I said, focus on is maybe that first time runner that just picked up running, but also it could be that very competitive runner that will never be a pro but is so dedicated to their journey that they want to be part of something bigger, and maybe that is not a big brand, but it's a brand tracksmith that feels more true to the culture and spirit of what the sport is.

(24:04):

So when we put out that content, we wanted to go back to what Tracksmith was and who it serves, and essentially the main statement in that piece of content, if you watch it, is we are all amateurs. And I think that's a really powerful statement because essentially add tracksmith, we are all amateurs. We're not professional runners. Some of us are fast, some of us are not as fast. Some of us run seven days a week, some of us run three days a week, but essentially we're all the same on this journey in this very democratic way. And that to me is inclusive in and of itself. You see that brought to life in a lot what we do from a community perspective.

Cole Heilborn (24:53):

In this piece, there's a number of scenes all stitched together of a variety of different types of people getting out different locations. People are getting ready, people are finishing their runs, people are mid stride. What are the scene, I'm curious if there's one scene that speaks to you the most or one scene that speaks to your audience the most, that shows the level of understanding that Tracksmith has, your creative team has about their audience, that they incorporated it into this piece?

Massimo Alpian (25:21):

I think funny enough, I don't think there's one scene to me. What made me actually, I did tear up the first time I watched the finished piece of content was more the culmination of all these moments because they all represent so many different things for sure. There were key moments. One that particularly spoke to me that does speak to me was when one of our athletes, he is running and he just pulls his shirt off. That is something I do here in Boulder in the summer when it's a hundred degrees and you kind of just toss your shirt on the side of the road and you come back to it at the end of your workout. That to me, just that spoke to me because it's such a authentic piece of something a lot of male runners do when they're just running. Or even women runners as well.

(26:14):

They have a long sleep base layer on. They'll just take it off and toss it on the side of the road. In this instance, it was one of our male athletes, but that just spoke to me. He had just sweat dripping on all parts of his body. You could tell he was working hard. You could tell the grit and pain on his face, and it was just this moment where he was just like, shit, I just need to take my shirt off because I am just so hot and just toss it on the side of the road and kind of remember, which is also a very runner thing, is remembering the fence or a bush or something so you can go back and get your shirt at the end of the workout. So that is one scene that yes did speak to me, but I think again, what spoke to me more was this beautiful masterpiece of all these moments and pieces of imagery through 10 years of tracksmith, some more recent, some in the distant past that were pieced together in this really beautiful way that spoke to the runner's journey.

Cole Heilborn (27:25):

I think there was a three second shot in that piece where a runner blew a snot rocket, and

Massimo Alpian (27:29):

That's a really good one too. Yes.

Cole Heilborn (27:31):

I was like, oh my gosh, that's me. Because anytime I start moving faster than a walk, my nose just starts to pour. Yes. But I'm always amazed at how those simple, it's two or three seconds and it can create such an emotional experience

Massimo Alpian (27:48):

For

Cole Heilborn (27:48):

People watching because they get it. They're like, oh, that's me, or I've experienced that, and it's such an understated skillset I think.

Massimo Alpian (27:58):

Yeah, I think a few years ago, I think it was more a little bit more than that. It may have been like five, six years ago, we had to put out another piece of content. It was just going through sort of these funny moments that are quite cliche with runners that we all do in our daily lives, but you never see in creative or campaign imagery, one that always sticks out to me. GPS has gotten better, but even five, six years ago, GPS took a while and it was the classic thing runners you, which is starting your watch and just holding it up to the sky, trying to see if you can get some sort of a satellite signal sometimes for five minutes. Sometimes it would take me 10 minutes in big cities years ago in New York where there's a lot of skyscrapers where you're just trying to get a signal before you're running, you're just frustrated like, okay, I'm just ready to go.

(28:56):

Why is this taking so long? And then also a part of you is just like, do I really even need to record my run? I'm just going to go whatever F this, I'm just going to go on my run because this is really annoying. But those are the moments that are special. Those are the moments that when you see that as a runner, you're like, oh yeah, that's me too, and that makes sense and that this is a brand that gets it, that really gets it rather than these overly curated shots with the perfect strides and in some location around the world, this feels good and it feels authentic and true to what runners do.

Cole Heilborn (29:42):

Another great example, and I want you to share more about this is the Church of the Long Run project that you did. Can you share more about what that is because it's an awesome concept. It's a bold concept. I'll say

Massimo Alpian (29:54):

It is. It's what I say, it's polarizing, which I think again, all pieces of good creative art should be polarizing how you stir emotion. When I first heard the concept, I had an opinion on it, and I'll share that because an open book, I'm honest. I was like, really? We want to put what I believe is an eighties, some odd minute piece of just Sam or athlete of her running on some road in Arctic conditions like who's going to watch this for all? Who has the time to watch something like this and is it just going to fall flat? And as I started to think about it, it made sense because it feels true to what Smith does. It's following Sam on her long run. That was a real workout for her, whether we were going to be there or not. She was going to go out and do that workout. And it wound up being, again, just like the amateur piece of content, one of our most successful pieces of content.

(31:05):

It was definitely polarizing, but I received so much great positive feedback about it particularly, which was interesting because we launched it in the middle of winter. A lot of friends were like, I just put this on an iPad and watch it while I'm on the treadmill. I had to do my two hour long run on a treadmill because it was snowing. So I just watched this for 80 some odd minutes to keep me motivated. It was such beautiful content. I've had other friends say they just have it on a monitor in the background while they're working as some sort of meditative piece that kind of just sits there that they can glance at because it's so beautiful. And I think that again, is really true to what Tracksmith does. We put out content that's emotional, that's authentic to what a runner does or how they train.

(32:05):

And it is beautiful. At the end of the day, it is this beautiful piece of 80 some odd minutes of watching Sam run on this road in really extreme conditions. And if you're a dedicated runner, some people will be like, why the hell would you want to go out in those conditions? I will tell you, I know dozens and dozens of dedicated runners. Some might be like, yeah, I'm going to opt for the treadmill. And others will be like, I'm going out because I have to, and I don't have an option. I don't own a treadmill and I don't have a gym membership. So this is what I got,

Cole Heilborn (32:44):

And correct me if I'm wrong, but was that piece a one shot?

Massimo Alpian (32:47):

Yes, it was a continuous piece of content,

Cole Heilborn (32:52):

Not only from a creative standpoint, but from a production standpoint. So cool.

Massimo Alpian (32:58):

Yeah, it's huge. Kudos to Emily May because she's so talented, but she is also just as dedicated as the athlete is behind in front of the lens rather. And yeah, she was also dealing with those conditions with the wind, the snow, but also still doing what she does well, which is capturing those authentic moments. So there's this one scene, if I forgot what minute it is, but Sam, there's this huge gust of wind and Sam or athlete is does what any writer would do is kind of just is still running, but cowers are head away from the wind and then just blocks the wind out of her face and it's such a emotional moment that's so raw. And if Emily wasn't shooting that moment, it wouldn't have happened, right?

Cole Heilborn (33:53):

So something that the internet is full of is people who claim that short form is the only way or long form is the only way. And there's lots of polarizing statements out there on the internet about short versus long form, and I think most people would say, well, there's a time and a place for both. They're both unique. Can you share a little bit more about how you think about short versus long form? Because shared two drastic examples of pieces that have been successful. What's your strategy there?

Massimo Alpian (34:26):

Yeah, I think at Tracksmith and actually Cannondale, we usually approach, and I usually like to approach things from knowing that we will put short pieces of content out more frequently throughout the year. This might be around smaller product launches, smaller brand initiatives that might be going on from a cultural point of view. But all in all, I also strongly believe that a brand should invest in one to two pieces of long form content a year that really tell a story and sets the tone for what you're trying to accomplish in that year and get across to your following. I think in my opinion, that it's always great to come out with one piece of that content earlier in the year that sort of sets that tone for the year in this really fundamental or foundational way. And then smaller pieces of content can come after that depending on what your marketing calendar looks like, what your product launch calendar looks like.

(35:36):

So to me, I feel that there needs to be a balance, of course, like you said. But I do think fundamentally approaching it from a place where there's this one piece of content that really sets the tone for everything else you're going to do throughout the year and then this other piece, one to two other pieces of long form content that build off that or close the year in a certain way or close that year's worth of storytelling in a certain way, I think is essentially going to lead to success. And again, some people might disagree with me on that, but I fundamentally from my brand experience believe that that is a real great way to keep your following engaged and be able to not do too much with either long firm or short firm.

Cole Heilborn (36:39):

Are those numbers based purely on just resources and the capacity to produce that type of content that takes a lot of effort or is one to two a sweet spot regardless if you had the resources and capacity to produce say 10 or 20 long form a year?

Massimo Alpian (36:54):

Yeah, I think that's a good question. For my time at Cannondale and Tracksmith, it's a bit of both. It's resources, but I think it's also an intentional decision. I think also people associate us, us with great content, but they also associate and know that we are not, let's say for example Yeti. Yeti has their own Yeti films platform, they have their own production arm that puts out lots of pieces of content in a year's time. And I think people expect that they branded themselves for people to know that and people want it, and they also have the budgets for that of course. So I think yes, it's a bit of a resource decision, but also what makes sense for your brand and your brand identity? Are you just making content for content's sake to spend money or are you actually doing something that makes sense and is intentional and mindful and considered for what you're trying to accomplish in that year? And I think for us, that means the numbers I just presented, which is very few pieces of long form content that are very impactful and really set a tone and really get key messages across, and then some of these pieces of short form content that keep the process moving along, that keeps the runner engaged, that keeps her following engaged.

Cole Heilborn (38:33):

What's the goal of the content that you produce? If you had to summarize all of it, what is the goal

Massimo Alpian (38:42):

At the end of the day? I think there is power in visual format, and I think that's essentially what it is. I think when we look at Tracksmith and when I look at Tracksmith from a comms lens, from a comms point of view, you go, where are all these touch points that people are touching and feeling tracksmith, right? You can go in a million directions, but essentially that's right. There's what we call earned media. That's like PR stories. If you open up runner's world, the Wall Street Journal, and you see Tracksmith in there and you're like, oh, that's cool. Whether it be a long form story or just a product roundup. I think there's some of the stuff we do with media partners on traditional advertising. There's also what you see in a retail perspective when you walk into a Tracksmith store, what you also experience from a community perspective and then the product itself.

(39:48):

What I think the content piece does is brings that to a place in a visual format that feels emotional, that sort of strengthens all these other touch points in a way that someone can consume that from their phone, from behind their screen at home, from areas in the world where Tracksmith can only be accessed through placing an order. On tracksmith.com example, we have a huge following in places like Indonesia in Southeast Asia, in East Asia where we don't have retail stores where we don't activate from a community perspective, but we have runners in those markets coming to us and saying, wow, that was a beautiful piece of content and I love your product. When are you going to open up a store in Jakarta? So I think essentially what that does is allows runners to again, touch and feel tracksmith in another way if they've touched and felt tracksmith in other places. But it also brings Tracksmith to someone who loves the brand, loves the product, but wants to feel the brand from a distant space.

Cole Heilborn (41:11):

Is that how you would articulate the ROI?

Massimo Alpian (41:14):

Yes, I do. And that's an interesting question because we live in a time, this is my personal point of view, we live in a time where everything is measured by numbers, and a lot of my job is that as well of what's the hard oi on this? What are the views? Did this convert to sales? And that's been at any role I'm in, but sometimes you have to accept that some of that stuff can't be measured in numbers. You can measure, you can't measure emotion in numbers. Brand building often can't be measured because a piece of content you put out today will be looked at millions of times over a five year period of time. So I can't say this beautiful piece of content today is going to convert into this many sales, but I know this many people have viewed it, this, many people have engaged with it. And at some point in their journey as a runner, they'll come back to that piece of content and be like, oh, maybe I should go to a tracks with event. Maybe I should try a piece of Tracksmith gear, or I'm in New York or Boston or London, maybe I'll stop at the Tracksmith store because this piece of content spoke to me. Does that make sense?

Cole Heilborn (42:40):

Yeah, yeah, it does. Yeah. I mean, it's the question that I think every brand marketer and everyone in creative struggles with. Well, it's both liberating and a burden because in some sense, some ways it can be measured, some ways it can be. You can craft some numbers to it all, but in other words, you can't. And that can, yeah, like I said, it can be liberating or frustrating.

Massimo Alpian (43:09):

Yeah, I always say there will always be a quantitative part of everything you do as a marketer, but also there's the part that can't be measured in numbers, and I think we need to find some comfort in that and find a way to accept that as we move forward.

Cole Heilborn (43:32):

If you had to sum up the challenges that Tracksmith faces when it comes to creating effective emotional driven content in 2025 now, and you had to consider any challenges that are out there, everything from ideation to distribution, to even just bringing leadership on board, I dunno, consider all the different possibilities. What are some of the biggest challenges that you foresee?

Massimo Alpian (44:02):

Yeah, for sure. That's a really great question. I think for us internally, we're in a really good place because we know exactly like I said, who we are. We've actually had a lot of great moments of what I'll say like test moments over the past year or two examples that you just gave from the church of the long run or the amateur anthem. You're the amateur piece of content where we've tested the waters and we've gotten great feedback, so we're very clear of what we want to do. I think the challenge is less internal but more external. We're at a time where social media is changing rapidly on a daily basis, how people consume content is changing rapidly.

(44:51):

Media, social media platforms that historically have been places where people come to consume content like we create are being extremely political and politicized a very challenging time. And I think what we want to do is still be there at a time at this very polarizing time globally and nationally where running is still an escape, running is still beautiful, running is still aspirational and inspirational, and you can shut off for a few minutes and consume what we put out there and give you some calm and inspire to maybe disconnect from this and go for a run. And I think the challenge there is that we're competing now with algorithms and space and people's attention spans and figuring out, back to what we just spoke about, do people still want to look at long form content? Are they so distracted that they can consume this? Do we need to put shorter pieces of content out?

(46:11):

Is Instagram still great, but what do we put out on TikTok versus Instagram and how do we create content for each platform? What do we put out on YouTube? So I think to sum up my answer, I think the challenges are more external in the way the platforms are being run and what we have to compete with in what people are consuming. But the one thing I do know as fact is running is a constant in people's lives. They do throughout the chaos of the world, they see it as an escape. They see it as a place for nurturing their mental and physical health, and we will continue to put content out there that they can consume and feel inspired by. It's just figuring out when's the right time to do that, how to do that, and how to create that content for each platform that's out there.

Cole Heilborn (47:15):

Well, I don't know if this is any comfort, but you're not alone.

Massimo Alpian (47:18):

Yes, I know. We're not alone on this one, me for sure.

Cole Heilborn (47:23):

No, I think everyone's right there with you. Absolutely. Massimo, we can chat. I could keep asking you questions for quite some time, but I want to thank you. We do need to start to wrap things up, but I want to thank you for taking the time to give some insight into this world that you live in and you get to work in and speak on behalf of the amazing creative team that you have and share some insights. Thanks for wading through this kind of ambiguous world of content and creative. Absolutely. But it's neat to hear about the things that are working and have worked and kind of some of those core truths that you take with you forward into the unknown.

Massimo Alpian (48:05):

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much as well for giving me the opportunity to share what Tracksmith does and how we empower runners and inspire them, and also allowing you to give a little bit of myself and my story as well and how that brought me to Tracksmith.

Cole Heilborn (48:23):

If folks want to follow along with you, can you give us any teases as to future content that we could be on the lookout for?

Massimo Alpian (48:30):

Yes. Well, we have something really fun, which is not a secret because we launched the prototype a year ago, but we launched a prototype for our first ever race shoe. It's our second shoe ever, ever. We launched that about a year ago. It is officially going to be launched next month, and there's going to be some really great pieces of content that come along with that. So stay tuned about a month from now, you're going to see some great stuff out there. Would love to hear your feedback. But yes, next month is going to be a big month for Tracksmith, both on the product side, but also on the creative and storytelling side.

Cole Heilborn (49:10):

Amazing. If folks want to find you and hang out, go for a run or talk shop. Where can they find

Massimo Alpian (49:16):

You? Yeah, feel free to hit me up my on social media. My Instagram is Masimo Alps, M-A-S-S-I-M-O-A-L-P-S, like the Alps. So hit me up. I'm here in Boulder, but Tracksmith has me traveling around the world. So if you're in New York, Boston, London, just hit me up and I'd love to invite you to a Tracksmith event or go for Around.

Cole Heilborn (49:39):

Amazing last move. Thank you. Have a good day.

Massimo Alpian (49:42):

You too. Thanks Cole.

Cole Heilborn (49:43):

Thank you for listening to this episode of the Backcountry Marketing Podcast. Please share it with a friend or leave us a review on Apple.

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